Mr.
Bungle
Interview by
Brian Shevlin &
Damian Mack-Husted
Photos by Amanda Marsalis
This interview with Mike Patton and Bär McKinnon took place
an hour before Mr. Bungles appearance at Club X-Treme in Cameron
Park, California the day their new album California was released.
Our setting was an old trailer painted to look like a wild west-era
Southern Pacific boxcar. The idea was to get them spouting off
about nothing in particular, in the hopes of capturing some
insights into their enigmatic style, and maybe some idea as
to just how a band like this survives aboard Warner Brothers.
The result is this, a lumberjack-sized dose of verbal diarrhea,
peppered with diamonds.
Mike
Patton: I went backpacking once, I think I was maybe 15 or 14,
something like that... it was somewhere like Trinity Alps or
something. I made it one night. I think I was with my uncle,
he was like a stoner guy, I was totally homesick, I totally
flipped out.
Bär Mckinnon: I get so buggy out in the woods, its so quiet
out there and shit. I break into cold sweats.
(We seemed to spend a lot of time rambling about camping and
random nonsense, so I just cut to the good stuff.)
Brian Shevlin: How do you feel about the new album? Are you
happy with it?
Yeah, yeah. We’re happy with it. It’s just been like
an obscene part of our lives, really intensely, for the last
three or four months. Between rehearsing and finishing mixing,
like fifteen hours a day of that fuckin’ shit. You don’t
even hear it as music anymore. It’s just like the soundtrack
to your life.
It hasn’t really hit. It’s been out a couple days.
You can’t really feel the effect of it. I haven’t
even gone to the store yet...
Yeah, I always like to buy one. Just go into the store and for
good luck, just buy one. I haven’t done that yet, but I
will.
I guess hearing the crowd response to some of the new stuff
is also a way to be aware of the fact that it’s out. Whereas
like the very first show we did people weren’t really responding
to the new stuff. I was expecting them to know the music...
We’ve been living in a cocoon for the past year.
We had the opportunity of getting it about a month before because
I reviewed it for the magazine, so we know all the songs. We’re
already working on a whole Mr. Bungle cover band.
(Slightly sarcastic) Good luck!
Damian Mack-Husted: So, what’s your approach to recording?
I know you did it with two twenty four track machines.
Three at times. (Laughter) Yeah, it’s disgusting.
What was your approach to transforming that to live?
The approach is get around and flop around and hope it works.
Samplers; there’s more technology on that stage than there
should be in any god fearing band.
What’s interesting is how we’ve seen reviews by people
who are talking about all the sampling that went into the making
of it, which wasn’t the case. The samplers came afterwards
for us to kind of recreate a lot of stuff.
Yeah, we didn’t use any samples. We’re sampling the
shit that we play or that real musicians played. Some things,
obviously are better not to even try, so we rearrange those.
I’m not gonna stand up there, press a button, and have
a twenty part vocal harmony come out. There is a line that you
shouldn’t cross, so those parts we rearrange and they’re
different now. I saw the two shows in San Francisco and I noticed a few
of the songs you did rearrange, for example the last song on
the album, you have a different arrangement on that. Is that
because its too hard to reproduce live?
It’s also just why bother? We could produce it very easy.
I could go up there and press one button!
It’s another way to keep it interesting too. The ideas
are always there; new approaches to things.
It’s a way of making an old song a new one. You put a new
part in it, you kind of get excited about it for a little bit
longer. But also, it’s just like look, some parts we would
rather not have go down the Milli Vanilli path. I’m not
gonna be able to look at the crowd straight-faced and do that.
Not yet.
Do you guys really make your own sounds? I notice there’s
a lot of sounds from external sources. I kind of figured that
you guys had either sampled everything yourself or just recorded
it that way.
The first record there were a lot of sounds from movies, pinball
machines, things like that. The second record there really was
not any samples at all. None. Zero. All played, whether it was
a sound effect or a little electronic manipulation or a backwards
guitar or whatever.
I think when somebody hears something on our record and they
don’t have any way of explaining it, they’re like
“Oh, it’s a sample.” It’s an easy way out
for them when they’re writing their article that has so
many words.
I wish it was that easy.
So how do you guys actually get all your sounds. Are you gear
heads? Do you just collect all sorts of weird effects pedals
and sounds and toys in the studio?
Well, Playin around. In certain cases that’s what you hear
in your head and that’s best because it’s like “I
know exactly what sound that should be!” Then you go figure
out how to do it. “I gotta find a guy who plays a fuckin’
obscure Hungarian instrument.” So you call all around town
to find this clown and you finally find him and then that’s
kind of what makes it all worth it.
What’s your favorite keyboard, it seems like everyone in
the band plays a keyboard now?
Everybody in this band will probably give you a different answer
on that one. There are more keyboards in this band than there
are people. My favorite keyboard of all time would be a Casio
VA-10. You’ll probably never find it, but it’s got
a little microphone in it. It’s got all these really great
effects. Very versatile keyboard. It’s not very big, kinda
like a fisher price.
So do you collect all this kind of stuff?
Not really. I just stumbled upon that one day in a music store
and was like “Oh my god.” It’s got a little vocoder
in it. You can sing into it and it will follow you. It’s
pretty funny?
I don’t really have a favorite keyboard yet. I’m thinking
of what’s working for us right now. The Kurzweil 2500.
At this point it’s a good friend to us. It’s really
hard to say what my favorite one is. I like a keyboard with
weighted keys.
What about your organ sound? There’s probably more organ
sounds than any other sounds...
Organs? Hammonds, Lowrys, Kimball, Kahn. We have a little practice
space where we record a lot of the shit for this record. It’s
just littered with organs.
You just bring the multi track machines in there?
ADAT. A couple of ADATs actually. It can be nice. In theory
it’s nice. Then you gotta sync it up with that and then
you gotta... (Patton just shakes his head)
Never again! I think we’re gonna have to go the computer
route. I mean, what are we gonna sync, ten tape machines up
together? (Laughter) It’s not getting better for this band,
it’s getting worse. We’re recording more and more
and things are getting more and more layered. I just don’t
see how we’re gonna be able to avoid going digital. And
it kind of brings a tear to my eye. (Laughter)
So, do you prefer the analog route over the digital thing?
It’s just that I feel better about having it on tape. You
press play and it goes. There’s no crashing involved you
know... whatever.
How do you write your songs? Listening to a Bungle album is
different than listening to a pop album. The pop album’s
fairly straight forward, and with a Bungle album, you’ve
got things coming and going, things coming in and out. Do you
basically just sit around and mess around or do you plan things
out at all?
It varies from song to song. Some songs are all written out.
One person has all the ideas. Everything’s kinda set in
place, Lyrics. Other things come together from tapes that are
exchanged. With the exchanged tapes everything’s open season
with this band.
It’s kind of scary to think about how much of that, however
disorganized it might sound, is calculated down to the last
detail. It’s a little frightening to think about sometimes,
but a lot of the songs, especially on this record, were like
that. But other ones, Trevor had an idea and then Bär put
something else on top of it and then Trey put his idea in and
it just changed from some avant garde thing into a Motown thing
all of a sudden.
This was definitely more collaborative than they’ve been
in the past. In the past a lot of things have been completely
set in spades where one person just had the idea.... I’m
kind of notorious for having ideas that haven’t really
been refined yet.
He’s the risk meister.
I’ll throw ‘em out there to Mike or Trey and they’ll
come and pick out the little nuggets from a pile of shit.
He makes these tapes that are just like, if you were going to
compare it to an article, it would be a run on sentence. They
just keep going and going. It’s pretty amazing.
It’s a schizophrenic thing almost. I can actually take
all my riffs and tie them into each other... There’s no
formula to it.
(At this time the bassist Trevor Dunn walks in
and sits on the arm of the couch.)
Do you wanna join the interview?
Trevor: Oh, this is an interview (he gets up, turns around,
and answers as he’s walking away) ah, no.
(Patton just picks up right where we left off)
And then there are other things, especially in the past that
just came from actual jam sessions, or little parts at least.
I remember Danny sound checking one time. I noticed the first
little sounds you’ll hear during a sound check sometimes
are the most inspiring things of the whole day. People get on
their instrument, and they do something, and it’s the coolest
thing. I remember I had the tape machine rolling with Danny
and he started playing this great beat, but he only kept it
going for like three seconds. I ran over and said “Oh man,
do that again!” and it was like a fucked up variation of
it, he couldn’t remember what it was. But I have that little
three second thing and I plan one day to do something with that,
it’s like the coolest fuckin’ beat. (wow) , and I’m
“God, I gotta loop it” That’s one of those instances
where you have a jam or something that’s been recorded
and you listen to it and you can hear it sort of suggest something
else.
The most fun that I’ve had writing for this band is instances
like that. When someone says “I have this thing and I don’t
even know what to do with it.” Give it to me. I think some
of our most interesting stuff has come from that. It’s
like, “what do I do with this” and then you give it
to someone else, and then they add something that you could
never possibly have thought of.
And then years down the road you kind of get a little laugh
out of like “Oh my god! Remember what this was? This was
gonna be this...”
Think of what it could have been.
Look what happened to it? I mean, for better or worse.
Like a little baby. Kick it out of the house and watch it fail
or become president, or whatever.
I mean, we had a trust fund set up for this little fucker, look
what he did! (Laughter) We sent him out on his own.
And he became a fuckin drug addict. (Laughter)
That’s actually something I’ve thought before, sometimes
writing songs in bands, probably in some weird abstract way,
that almost the closest way you can explain it... it’s
like having a child together because everyone puts in their
input, and it’s all you, and then it’s all you and
them at the same time, but it’s also none of you, it’s
its own thing too.
Yeah, it is it’s own thing.
There’s some riffs of Danny’s that he has never taken
the initiative to really fully realize that they’re like
little fuckin’ one armed, in the basement... He’s
kinda
“Come on man.”
It’ll come out when he’s relaxing sometimes and he
thinks nobody’s listening, and we’re “Hey, what
was that.”
We’ll hear something from like ten years ago.
That guy... it’s almost like his life is one song.
It almost makes it worse to encourage it. It’s one of those
things. You don’t want to go up to him and give him too
much encouragement. “Man, you should really do this...”
As soon as you start stuff like that, you’ve already fucked
it up.
Yeah, right. You won’t see it again for another couple
of years.
He’ll shuffle it back in the closet.
(We just all sit there for a moment in silence,
and then begin to laugh)
Ok, I think you got the point (laughter)
Do
you use studio musicians? I mean I know you have had appearances
before.
This one, I think there were twice as many extra musicians as
there were band players. There were what, maybe twelve?
Yeah.
There was actually five of us in the band at that time, it’s
pretty funny. But, you know, one guy would be for one particular
sound, like I said about the obscure Hungarian instrument or
a particular kind of an accordion player.
For very specialized sounds.
So, on the crazy keyboard parts do you guys have a lot of
guests, or do you guys play those?
I’m not sure which ones.
Like, the really super technical parts. Like “Ars Moriendi”
No keyboards goin’ on there. Accordions, we added an accordion
player.
Well, ok, I meant keyboard type instrument.
Yeah, and David Kane played violin.
But, on the original demo of that too, Mike actually played
all those parts. It’s all stuff that he played and then
he’d take it into the studio and realize that...
You just try and make it real. You’re not gonna bring the
French Accordion player downstairs in your basement. You can
use a cheesie MIDI sound. So you do it like that and then when
you get to the studio, you hope to make it bigger and better.
I know you’re influenced, at least some of you, by many
different music styles. You’ve got jazz going on, then
into some metal. It seems like there’s even some Indian
themes going on in some of the new stuff. I know ‘Secret
Chiefs’ has some Arabic styles going on. Do you research
that, or do you find all different kinds of music interesting?
It can be, on a good day.
Whatever interests you most at the time. There’s not so
much like a conscious decision when we go into this. It’s
kind of like something will come into you, or someone will turn
you on to it. There is no specific reason for something to be
there.
A lot of wasted hours in record stores, personally speaking.
Can I be so crass and cliche as to ask for some influences?
I’m influenced by the Cocteau Twins, I mean, that is actually
the only influence I have, I go around with these blinders on
(hands covering his peripheral vision, then he just laughs)...
OK honestly, I mean. That’s always the funniest question
- the influences. You know, because man I’m influenced
by everything. My ears have gotten a lot bigger lately. I used
to listen to the most silly shit. I’d have to have a favorite
band and be like “Everything else is shit!” Then you’d
get bored. You’d get old and bored. And then you realize,
this stuff’s keeping me alive, godammit! I don’t have
anything else goin’ on! I’ve gotta find some good
music to listen to. I have no friends! Probably the way that
this band works is we go through phases. You can hear it all
on the record you know. We were all listening, coincidentally
really, or by trading CDs...”Oh have you heard that incredible
Gypsy thing?” I’m sure you can find somewhere on the
record where that influence is there. Then, whatever, some Beach
Boys.
That is funny because the Beach Boys thing wasn’t so direct.
It just sort of evolved. It wasn’t like “Alright I
listened to Pet Sounds today, and now I’m gonna do this.”
It’s easier for people to kind of look at it and go “Oh
that sounds like...” whatever. It’s like a total cause/effect
sort of thing. It just kinda happens.
It’s more complicated than that.
I know how I am sometimes when I write music and friends write
music. When you listen to new stuff, like when we got the new
Bungle album, we listened to it constantly. It’s more inspiring.
You pick up an album and not only do you like it, but then it
makes you want to create music like that - not copy it, but
it makes you inspired to write stuff.
To do something.
This is stuff that makes me want to get off my ass and write
and create.
That’s probably the best compliment you could probably
ever get as being a musician, I would say.
At least it’s one of them.
Some of the music I hear makes me want to give up. I’m
able to get over myself to a point where I don’t have the
illusions about trying to be the greatest musician in the world,
I mean I realize I’m going to do something...
If it makes you either want to give up or be better, then it’s
doing it’s job.
I know you’ve worked with people like John Zorn in the
past. How has working with someone like that influenced you,
or do you find styles like that influence you?
We’ve worked with him a bunch, but more so probably on
a personal level he’s influenced us. Well, you know, how
to run your business and stuff.
(Patton has to go and do sound check, and get ready for the
show, Bär still kicks it with us for a while)
You know, I always feel bad when you guys ask about the influences
cause you get no answers.
Well, I just want to see if I’m right man. I hear Zappa,
I hear Esquivel...
Trey could ring off artist’s.
For me, It’s more on a personal level. You may list all
these bands that we all agree are great, and then you’ll
mention something that I’ve never heard of, and then I
think I’ve gotta go check that out. I mean, you guys probably
have similar music tastes, and I love being turned on to new
music.
Absolutely. Ideally for me, Trey is constantly “Man, you
gotta listen to this or, check this out.” He’s almost
just like a listening lab or something. You know, I feel that
people should just constantly be makin’ tapes for each
other, thats the ideal thing. But a lot of times, people will
just say, check out this new song... These guys have turned
me on to so much great shit.
Yeah, thats how my friends are. They’ve turned me on to
the Mahavishnu Orchestra, or old Miles Davis ‘Bitches Brew.’
You know, I got to that stuff just way late, I mean this is
all stuff other people were listening to in high school, and
they are all like “Oh, you just heard that?” I guess
I’m a late bloomer.
Better late than never.
(Patton is back for a moment, and then drummer Danny Heifetz
sits down)
Danny: Hey, what’s up.
Tell them about your train of riffs that you’ve been writing.
(Laughter)
I’m up to probably about 200 total riffs broken up into
about six songs. There is really only one song that is ever
going to go anywhere, I mean I’m planning on some day finishing
one song. But, I’m going to wait until I’m a senior
citizen to do it (Laughter). So I’ve got maybe five to
ten years.
Do you want to talk about side projects?
Secret Chiefs?
I don’t know what there is to tell.
You all seem to be pretty busy. Is Mr. Bungle something you
are going to focus on more now, or do you just plan to keep
doing side project after side project.
There’s not many plans to do side projects, it’s just
that they happen.
You’re never going to be doing one band for your whole
career... I mean you can, but it’s just really exhaustible.
It’s just the hard way to do it.
My Childhood fantasy’s were always like being in a rock
band and fuckin tour for a year or two years at a time. I though
that would be the ultimate, but its become tiresome and tedious.
When you’re on tour there is not so much time to sleep,
to work on extra stuff. You wanna get stuff together, It waters
the plant to take some time off. We all have full schedules.
At this time in our life though, we are committed to this, it’s
not like we are tryin to think of extra side gigs to do in extra
towns, At least I’m not. And I’m goin to take out
anyone in the band who betrays the band while we are on tour.
You know just physical kinds of stuff, not emotional. Just punching,
maybe just a broken pinky you’d need for a keyboard part.
Violence.
So, we are committed to it.
It’s definitely a priority. It seems this year it should
work out that we could go anywhere whenever someone wanted us
to go there. Like for Europe, people wanted us to go there but
we can’t because there is no record out. I mean we could,
but it would be idiotic because there would be no support at
all. People wouldn’t know what’s goin on.
I mean I’ve played for three and a half years without anything
else out. We could do it and it would be fun, but.
It just makes us much less flexible. If we could call the shots?
So how are things then with Warner Bros. I mean aren’t
they releasing your album overseas.
Well, its complicated, It’s not really them. I mean in
a sense it is. It was like a side deal, and Warner Bros. Lawyer
completely fucked us over. He gave us completely wrong information.
I mean it’s not really the label, but their lawyers.
It’s just utterly disgusting. You would think a major label
means automatic distribution world wide, and if anything that’s
what it should mean.
I mean there are women in these countries waiting for me to
come around.
It seems to me that Warner Bros. wouldn’t be the best home
for Mr. Bungle. I mean it’s a big company and it’s
about making a lot of money. And it seems that Mr. Bungle isn’t
going to ever be the next Janet Jackson album or something.
Yeah, we have always known that.
Is it just that you are still caught there or is it possible
that... well, Patton owns Ipecac and well...
It’s just completely up to them. They have always had the
opportunity of dropping us, and I was amazed after the first
one that they didn’t, and I was totally amazed after the
second that they didn’t, and I don’t know if things
are going to change now... and... well, I’m not going to
say it. I mean they have people who are helping, trying for
radio. I don’t know. It’s just not our thing. What
they should be doing is trying to get us into movies, soundtracks
and stuff. I think our music is much more focused towards that.
It’s hard to know exactly why things haven’t happened
in a more ideal fashion, and it’s hard to say what the
future holds, 6 months down the road it could be a completely
different story for us. We got a really good feeling from the
record company throughout the recording, that they are very
into the record and that they are still. It’s still just
at the birth of this album and we have to see what happens.
All my friends are always, “Man, you should have done this,
and done that... shoulda, coulda, woulda,” We’ll see
what happens, it’s not the end of the world.
Let’s put it this way, if we do get dropped, it’s
not like we won’t keep going. If we got dropped, it probably
would be a great experience. I’m not asking for it, but...
Mike
Patton: I went backpacking once, I think I was maybe 15 or 14,
something like that... it was somewhere like Trinity Alps or
something. I made it one night. I think I was with my uncle,
he was like a stoner guy, I was totally homesick, I totally
flipped out.
Do
you use studio musicians? I mean I know you have had appearances
before.